#CWImageDescriptionMeta

Jupiter RowlandI just stumbled upon the fairly recent blog post <a href="https://bryn.codes/writing/the-joy-in-alt-text/" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Finding the Joy in Alt Text</a> by Bryn Newell who, unfortunately, is nowhere to be found on anything that Hubzilla can directly federate with. It talks about fun and poetry and whimsy in alt-text. Well, for me personally, whimsy in image descriptions falls under "no can do". One single image regularly takes me multiple days, morning to evening, to research for the description and explanation, to describe and explain. I end up with a long image description that measures several tens of thousands of characters, and that goes directly into the post. At that point, I don't have the time and energy to edit whimsy into that monster description. Besides, whimsy clashes with the extensive explanations that are necessary for everyone to understand my image posts. Furthermore, I also distill a shorter image description for the alt-text to satisfy the Mastodon Home Owners' Association that demands there be a sufficiently detailed and descriptive alt-text for each image even if there are well over 100 Mastodon toots worth of image description in the post itself. Nonetheless, my alt-texts end up either exactly 1,500 characters long or only a very few characters short of that. I simply don't have room for whimsy in my alt-texts. I could technically make them longer, but then Mastodon, Misskey and their respective forks would chop them off at the 1,500-character mark. Not to mention that my original images never mean to convey emotions. Ever. Oh, and I can't describe my images like to a friend over a landline phone either. That'd mean I'd describe my image to one person. In a situation that allows for dialogue. I could ask my friend beforehand what they want to know about the image and what they need to know about the topics touched by the image to understand the image. I'd have to ask that because my images always show extremely obscure niche content that the vast majority of Fediverse users knows exactly nothing about. After asking and receiving the answers I need, I could give a description tailor-made for that one friend. Also, that friend could always ask me about details while I'm describing. In the Fediverse, I describe my images to potentially millions of Fediverse users and billions of Internet users. That's a situation that does not allow for dialogue. I can't possibly ask any of them what they want or what they need, much less every last one of them. I can't tailor my descriptions to their needs. Before I start describing, I know nothing about who wants and needs what. But when I'm done, everybody must know everything about the image and the topic of the image that they want or need to know. This means everyone must get the same massive info-dump because someone somewhere out there may want or need it. I can't describe an image over the phone the same way. I can't start describing an image over the phone by first giving lengthy explanations between several minutes and about an hour before I start describing the visuals. But my long descriptions require just that if I want to cover everyone's needs and requirements all the same. A pity I can't give any direct feedback. But then again, the author most likely knows nothing about Fediverse culture and how alt-text and image descriptions are even more deeply engrained there. And the author probably can't imagine either that it's possible to post in excess of 50,000 characters at once in social media. @<a href="https://a.gup.pe/u/accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">accessibility group</a> @<a href="https://a.gup.pe/u/a11y" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">a11y group</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=A11y" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">A11y</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Accessibility</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://tenforward.social/@djwudi" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Michael Hanscom</a> Out of curiosity, and to be on the safe side and improve my own image descriptions further: What makes alt-text bad in your opinion? Only when it's rubbish that doesn't have anything to do with the image? Or is it bad when it isn't accurate enough? When it isn't detailed enough/when certain details that you think should be described are missing? When it's too detailed? When it describes the wrong details? Is it bad when elements in the image are described the wrong way? When (for any definition of person) a person's skin colour is mentioned rather their race or vice versa, whichever you think is correct? When a person's gender is mentioned although whoever described the image can't know it with absolute certainty? When a shade of a colour is mentioned by name rather than being described? Is it bad when it doesn't explain what you don't understand in such a way that you understand the image without having to look anything up yourself? Or is it bad when it does explain the image because explanations do not belong into the alt-text (I'm being serious, they actually don't)? Is it bad when, while getting everything else right, it doesn't contain verbatim transcripts of any and all text in the image? What if there are transcripts in the post text body instead? Is it bad when text is transcribed which you think should not be transcribed, whichever that may be? Is it bad when text in a foreign language is transcribed verbatim in that language and then translated as literally as possible instead of translating it right away? Or do you have other criteria that <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/1e63be04-d96e-412a-ab47-aff18c5f9ad8" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">I don't know about and I haven't thought of</a> yet? When is alt-text so bad that it justifies both mocking and writing a replacement? #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mstdn.ca/@JustinDerrick" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Justin Derrick</a> The question, however, is: What is "high-quality"? How is it defined? Would the bot go by the definition valid for commercial/scientific/technological websites and blogs, i.e. ideally no more than 125 characters, and only a short and concise visual description with no further information? Or would the bot go by Mastodon's culture and Mastodon's standards, i.e. the longer and more detailed, the better, any and all extra information is welcome in alt-text (because it doesn't fit into the toot), and the limit is 1,500 characters? That is, if it were for me, the bot would go look both for alt-texts and for image descriptions in the post text body and judge both. Because I do both at the same time for my original images. An extremely detailed long image description in the post itself (character limit for post and alt-texts combined here: over 16 million) that also comes with all necessary explanations and transcripts of all text in the image, plus an alt-text that's as detailed as 1,500 characters (minus notification about the long description in the post) allow, but with no explanations, and I usually have to leave out text transcripts as well because they're too many. You may say the alt-text is superfluous if it's just a much shorter version of the long description. But as long as the Mastodon HOA demands there be an alt-text to every image, no matter what (especially seeing as I always hide my image posts behind summaries/content warnings, so you can't see right of the bat that there's a long image description in the post), I add alt-texts to my original images. I'm actually curious about how the bot would judge my descriptions. Maybe it'd flag them "inadequate" because it notices that the bits of text in the image are not transcribed in the alt-text. Maybe it'd be irritated because I have headlines in my long image descriptions, because they're so long that they need two levels of headlines. Maybe it'd flag them "inadequate" because it goes strictly by WCAG, and a) the alt-texts exceed 200 characters, b) long image descriptions do not belong into the text body by any known official accessibility standards, and c) neither my alt-texts nor my long descriptions are limited to what's supposed to be important within the context of the post. Anyway, in the meantime, you can follow the account @<a href="https://mastodon.social/@alttexthalloffame" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Alt Text Hall of Fame</a> and the hashtag #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextHallOfFame" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextHallOfFame</a>. CC: @<a href="https://mastodon.scot/@simon_brooke" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Simon Brooke</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=MastodonHOA" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">MastodonHOA</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter RowlandI wanted to participate in today's motto of the Unseen Image Challenge. But I wanted to do so with descriptions of actual images. And it made more sense to complete a set of descriptions that I had been working on since last year (yes, I know that other people take only a few seconds to fully describe an image) than to make an entirely new image. However, even at the most limited extent, that would have meant one post, four images, twelve portraits, at least with no background whatsoever, with the same avatar in all twelve outfits, with a whole lot of similarities in the outfits and with always the exact same posture. Nonetheless, I had to complete the preamble and improve it in parts. I had to write a detailed description of the custom shoe design in almost 2,000 characters. And I had to describe four variants of the same sports jacket and five variants of the same button-down shirt (I've done one jacket and three shirts now). It takes me longer to describe one button than it takes most people to describe an entire image. And I'm talking about portraits of a 3-D virtual world avatar. In fact, I wanted to use this as a test balloon for which way of offering long image descriptions (not long as in 800 characters in the alt-text, but long as in well over 20,000 characters elsewhere) is better. I wanted to post the same images twice. For one, I wanted to do as I always do and add a block with the long descriptions of three images and twelve portraits in the post itself, below all three images. The description block would start with a very long preamble that explains everything and describes what the images have in common, followed by individual descriptions of each image. I know that this works technically, but it would inflate the post itself to way more than 40 times the size of a Mastodon toot, and it would put a whole lot of distance between each image and its individual description. Besides, I wanted to make complete descriptions for each image as HTML documents, include each image plus alt-text in the respective HTML document, upload the HTML documents to the file space in my channel and put a link to each document underneath the corresponding image in the post. This would have put the descriptions fairly close to the images, and it would have dramatically reduced the length of the post. But it would have been entirely untested. It may pretty well have blown up in my face. Besides, the descriptions wouldn't actually be where the images in the post are. And users of dedicated mobile apps wouldn't be able to read the image descriptions in their apps. Instead, tapping the description link would open the browser (provided what I plan to do works in the first place). Well, I had to nix this for today because there's no way I can get it all done within the next bit over one hour. Instead, I may use the two images of @<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/juno_rowland" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Juno Rowland</a> that were the last original images I posted, combine their alt-texts and long descriptions with fully black images and correct the image explanation where it's actually factually wrong. The post with these images in them is from last year. That's so long ago that I guess nobody remembers it anyway, so I hope this doesn't count as cheating. I may actually post the "images" here on my Hubzilla channel instead of on <a href="https://streams.elsmussols.net/channel/jupiter_rowland" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">the (streams) channel where I have originally posted them</a>. Since there's nothing to actually see in the images, I don't have to be afraid of triggering anyone with eye contact. As for my new portraits, they will go on (streams) because they will contain eye contact. But I can't say when this will be. There's still so much to do in the image descriptions. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=UnseenImageChallenge" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">UnseenImageChallenge</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.social/@_9CL7T9k8cjnD_" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">-0--1-</a> @<a href="https://mastodon.social/@iDGS" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">David G. Smith</a> Still, first of all, if I posted an image without an alt-text (which I'd never do), AltBot would have to assume full admin rights over <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">the Hubzilla channel that I'm currently commenting from</a> because that's the only way for another Fediverse actor to alter the source code of my posts. Altering the source code of the post is necessary because Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte neither have a dedicated alt-text field, nor are images file attachments there. Rather, images are embedded directly into the post, in-line, just the same way blogs handle images. And alt-text has to be woven into the image-embedding code in the post. Thus, the post itself has to be altered. So, assuming AltBot actually manages to circumvent the two most advanced permissions systems in the Fediverse, it would have to trace back an image that it perceives as a file attachment to where exactly the embedding code for that particular image is in the post. It would have to be able to both understand and write the specific flavour of BBcode used by Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte. It would have to, for example, take this piece of code... <pre><code>[zrl=https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/photos/jupiter_rowland/image/b1e7bf9c-07d8-45b6-90bb-f43e27199295][zmg=800x533]https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/photo/b1e7bf9c-07d8-45b6-90bb-f43e27199295-2.jpg[/zmg][/zrl]</code></pre>...and edit it into this. <pre><code>[zrl=https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/photos/jupiter_rowland/image/b1e7bf9c-07d8-45b6-90bb-f43e27199295][zmg=https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/photo/b1e7bf9c-07d8-45b6-90bb-f43e27199295-2.jpg]Digital shaded rendering of the main building of the Universal Campus, a downloadable island location for 3-D virtual worlds based on OpenSimulator. The camera position is about three metres or ten feet above the ground. The camera is tilted slightly upward and rotated slightly to the left from the building's longitudinal axis. The futuristic building is over 200 metres long, stretching far into the distance, and its front is about 50 metres wide. Its structure is mostly textured to resemble brushed stainless steel, and almost everything in-between is grey tinted glass. The main entrance of the building in the middle of the front has two pairs of glass doors. They are surrounded by a massive complex geometrical structure, very roughly reminiscent of a vintage video game spacecraft with the front facing upward. Four huge cylindrical pillars carry the roof end, the outer two of which extend beyond it. All are tilted away from the landing area in front of the building and at the same time outward to the sides. The sides of the building are slightly tilted themselves. In the distance, a large geodesic dome rises from the building. There is a large circular area in front of the main entrance as well as several wide paths. They have light concrete textures, and they are lined with low walls with almost white concrete textures. Furthermore, various shrubs and trees decorate the scenery.[/zmg][/zrl]</code></pre> Not to mention that AltBot would require extensive detail niche knowledge about the topic covered by the image to be able to whip up the above alt-text in the first place. (By the way: The alt-text example is genuine. I've actually used it. And it's an extremely whittled-down version of the long image description of the same image in the post itself, a description which has to be the longest in the entire Fediverse.) Ideally, AltBot would do so without flagging the post as edited. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Forte</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.social/@_9CL7T9k8cjnD_" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">-0--1-</a> By the way, I'll accept that AltBot is <blockquote>AMAZINGLY GOOD</blockquote> when it's better at describing and explaining images about extremely obscure niche topics accurately than experts on these topics with years of experience. I've yet to encounter an AI that outdoes <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/f8ac991d-b64b-4290-be69-28feb51ba2a7" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">my own image-describing</a> in accuracy and level of detail. This, by the way, is likely to require knowledge that only I have. CC: @<a href="https://mastodon.social/@iDGS" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">David G. Smith</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://cloudisland.nz/@ambientspace" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Chris Mills</a> @<a href="https://beige.party/@PixysJourney" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">:neuro: Pixy's Journey :v_bi:</a> Kind of similar here, only that the extra information always goes into the post text itself. That extra information is necessary because I only ever post about extremely obscure topics, and I want people to understand my image posts without having to look anything up themselves. Whenever I post a wholly original image, I even add two image descriptions, a "short" and purely visual one in the alt-text and an extensive one that includes explanations in the post itself. And yes, I write my image descriptions myself by hand. I'm on a desktop computer with a hardware keyboard most of the time. Besides, AI can't nearly do what I do. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://norden.social/@PalmAndNeedle" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">PalmAndNeedle</a> I know. <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/db8f9353-e126-49b2-ad06-87c5e1df8d00" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">I have evidence.</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AI" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AI</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AIVsHuman" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AIVsHuman</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=HumanVsAI" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">HumanVsAI</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://beige.party/@OhOkKay" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">🇨🇦 OhOkKay</a> <blockquote>Be kind, take a few extra seconds to share your image with everyone.</blockquote> Mind if I take a few days instead to describe one image and do some research for the description? <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/95b6e36d-7fcd-4791-8cc1-c93e8b9975a3" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">My original images need an extremely high level of description detail.</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.social/@iFixit" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">iFixit</a> <blockquote>and it doesn't look like you can attach documents to posts</blockquote> You can't on Mastodon. I could, both here on <a href="https://joinfediverse.wiki/Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> and on <a href="https://joinfediverse.wiki/(streams)" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(streams)</a> where I post my images. But I wouldn't have to. Vanilla Mastodon has a character limit of 500. Hubzilla has a character "limit" that's so staggeringly high that nobody knows how high it is because it doesn't matter. (streams), from the same creator and the same software family as Hubzilla, has a character "limit" of over 24,000,000 which is not an arbitrary design decision but simply the size of the database field. By the way: Both are in the Fediverse, and both are federated with Mastodon, so Mastodon's "all media must have accurate and sufficiently detailed descriptions" rule applies there as well unless you don't care if thousands upon thousands of Mastodon users block you for not supplying image and media descriptions. In theory, I could publish a video of ten minutes, and in the same post, I could add a full, timestamped description that takes several hours to read. Verbatim transcript of all spoken words. Detailed description of the visuals where "detailed" means "as detailed as Mastodon loves its alt-texts" as in "800 characters of alt-text or more for a close-up of a single flower in front of a blurry background" detailed. Detailed description of all camera movements and cuts. Description of non-spoken-word noises. All timestamped, probably with over a hundred timestamps for the whole description of ten minutes of video. Now I'm wondering if that could be helpful or actually required, or if it's overkill and actually a hindrance. CC: @<a href="https://connectified.com/@masukomi" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">masukomi</a> @<a href="https://mastodon.scot/@gunchleoc" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">GunChleoc</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=MediaDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">MediaDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=MediaDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">MediaDescriptions</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://c.im/@JosephMeyer" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Joseph Meyer</a> <blockquote>When you read exceptional alt text, do you ever compliment its author? What is the epitome of alt text, either in general terms or using a specific example?</blockquote> I'd really like to know that myself, also to up my own game further and always stay way ahead of image description quality requirements. I mean, <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/1e63be04-d96e-412a-ab47-aff18c5f9ad8" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">I've learned a lot about describing images in and for the Fediverse</a> over the last two years. But I guess I can still learn something new, even if I think I already take care of everything, even if the technical possibilities I have here on Hubzilla for describing images surpass those on Mastodon by magnitudes. Maybe, if I learn something new from those who reply, I can weave it into the image descriptions for a series of images that I've been working on since late last year (the descriptions, not the images which are ready to go). <blockquote>Alt text sometimes merely explains what I am viewing; other times it draws my attention to special details in a photo that I would have otherwise missed.</blockquote> I never explain in alt-text. I do always explain a whole lot because I always have to explain a whole lot. For my original images, it takes me over 1,000 characters alone to explain where an image was made. But I only ever give explanations in the long, detailed image descriptions that go into the post text body (in addition to shorter and purely visual descriptions in the alt-texts). Or if there's no additional long image description in the post itself which is the case for my meme posts, I still supply enough explanation in the post text body (still not in the alt-text) for just about everyone in the Fediverse to understand them without having to look anything up themselves. If I can link to external information, e.g. KnowYourMeme for the template I've used, I do so. If I can't, I write the missing explanations right into the post myself. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://phpc.social/@luciledt" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LucileDT</a> Have you noticed that there are links in my comments? If it has a different colour from the rest of the content, it's a hyperlink. You're probably used to all hyperlinks always being URLs in plain sight. But <a href="https://joinfediverse.wiki/Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a>, where I am, can not only render, but also generate embedded links where the URL is concealed beneath some other text like on websites and in good blog posts. Mastodon can only show them, but not make them. All links in my post contain actual in-world pictures. You can't see them immediately. I had to put them all behind summaries plus content warnings because the posts are all extremely long, and Mastodon users may be very sensitive about anything that's longer than 500 characters. For example: <ul><li><a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/f8ac991d-b64b-4290-be69-28feb51ba2a7" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Tap this</a>. If you're on a phone app, your Web browser will open. I can't help that.</li><li>Tap "View article". The post will unfold from the summary and content warning.</li><li>Scroll down. You'll see: <ul><li>the actual post</li><li>the image with alt-text, embedded in the post in-between paragraphs</li><li>over 60,000 characters of long image description</li></ul></li></ul>If you absolutely have to see it in your Mastodon app, search for the hashtag <code>#UniversalCampus</code>. Or: <ul><li><a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/136f021c-06cb-4e38-abe6-2bf37fd521d8" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Tap this</a>. If you're on a phone app, your Web browser will open. I can't help that.</li><li>Tap "View article". The post will unfold from the summary and content warning.</li><li>Scroll down. You'll see: <ul><li>the actual post</li><li>the image with alt-text, embedded in the post in-between paragraphs</li><li>over 25,000 characters of long image description</li></ul></li></ul>This post is not available on your Mastodon instance, so no chance for you to see it in your Mastodon app. Sorry. If I were to include images right into this comment, I'd have to add a full set of image descriptions to each image. I do not have any pictures of halfway realistic buildings at hand. I couldn't post them in the Fediverse anyway. I can't properly describe them, so I can't post them, so it isn't even worth creating the images in the first place. Beyond my own images, I can recommend two blogs to you: <a href="https://hgsafari.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">the HG Safari blog</a> by Thirza Ember a.k.a. @<a href="https://mastodon.social/@hgsafari" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">HG Safari</a> and <a href="https://hieopensim.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">the Hypergrid International Expo blog</a> by @<a href="https://opensimsocial.com/@Tosha" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Tosha T.</a>. If you want something more artsy, check out the <a href="https://flickr.com/groups/opensim/pool/" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenSim</a> and <a href="https://flickr.com/groups/opensim-creations/pool/" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenSim-Creations</a> groups as well as the <a href="https://flickr.com/photos/tags/opensim" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenSim tag</a> on Flickr. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=OpenSim" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenSim</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=OpenSimulator" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenSimulator</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Metaverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Metaverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=VirtualWorlds" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">VirtualWorlds</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://phpc.social/@luciledt" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LucileDT</a> Technically speaking, I've got over 24,000,000 characters for posts and the same over 24,000,000 characters for all alt-texts in a post combined. <a href="https://codeberg.org/streams/streams" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Where I post my images nowadays</a> (if I post any at all), alt-text is not a separate data field but woven into the image embedding code. Too long alt-text still won't work. The UI can only show so much alt-text at once, and it can always only show the beginning. You can't scroll through alt-text; trying it will close the alt-text pop-up. Besides, alt-text is most important on Mastodon anyway. And as I've already said, Mastodon and its forks (Glitch, Hometown, Ecko etc. etc.) as well as Misskey and its forks (Calckey, Firefish, Iceshrimp, Sharkey, CherryPick, Catodon etc. etc.) all cut alt-texts from outside off at the 1,500-character mark and throw the excess characters away. In my posts, I can go all out. But that leads to extremely long posts. I had <a href="https://streams.elsmussols.net/.well-known/apgateway/did:key:z6Mkf2dhUa65zBYCNVqs3AHyt8uPixauZ7bPzEJn15LJANsd/item/8829de04-af65-4fa5-a6fa-438103c7d6c8" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">one meme post with 25,000+ characters in eight explanations for one image</a> before I learned that people do actually prefer externally linked explanations over posts with five-digit character counts due to the many long explanations. And that's without visual descriptions. On my channel for original virtual world images, I've only got <a href="https://streams.elsmussols.net/.well-known/apgateway/did:key:z6Mkmc3YmgUu5jTyhc6YqC8VjnMwmFtdjFFA45MHTqyBFaA2/item/b6ae326a-c207-46dd-836b-6bc2b6a3509c" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">one post with two images</a>. One image is a fairly simple avatar portrait with hardly any surroundings, the other one is a bit more complex. Altogether, the two long descriptions still exceed 20,000 characters, explanations and text transcripts included. It could be worse. <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/f8ac991d-b64b-4290-be69-28feb51ba2a7" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">My last image post on this Hubzilla channel here contains only one image</a>, but it's complex enough for a 60,000-character description. In <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/136f021c-06cb-4e38-abe6-2bf37fd521d8" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">the last one before that</a>, I've managed to describe one single object in the image with over 3,000 characters and then explain it with another more than 2,500 characters. And that explanation still depends on the explanations earlier in the image description. This is what happens when the topic is too obscure. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://phpc.social/@luciledt" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LucileDT</a> I always explain my image posts extensively because I know they always need extensive explanations, being about very obscure topics and such. But I don't do so in the alt-text. You should never explain anything in the alt-text. Not everyone can access alt-text. Besides, I'd quickly exceed 1,500 characters which would cause Mastodon, Misskey and their forks to cut my alt-texts off. Instead, my explanations go into the posts themselves which are almost unlimited. In the case of my original images, the explanations are part of a second, much longer and much more detailed image description in the post. CC: @<a href="https://digitalcourage.social/@chikl" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">chikl</a> @<a href="https://mastodon.neilzone.co.uk/@neil" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Neil Brown</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://kolektiva.social/@enby_of_the_apocalypse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">undead enby of the apocalypse</a> It depends. My original images, rare as they are, are even more niche than @<a href="https://mastodon.nl/@Rana" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Zeewater</a>'s, namely renderings from extremely obscure 3-D virtual worlds. This is something that maybe one out of 200,000 Fediverse users "has a basic understanding of". The other 199,999 need explanations. I've long since decided how much detail is relevant, based on who may come across my images, and what they may be interested in. As I don't limit my target audience although I could, I write my image descriptions for random strangers who stumble upon a post of mine on some federated timeline. Considering the topic, they might be interested in everything in the image, regardless of context. And yes, at the same time, they may not be fully sighted. And so I go to such detail that I need two image descriptions. A "short" and purely visual description in the alt-text (which still tends to grow to 1,500 characters, complete with the note where a longer description can be found), and a long, detailed description with all necessary explanations and all text transcripts in the post itself (I don't have any character limits to worry about). CC: @<a href="https://mastodon.neilzone.co.uk/@neil" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Neil Brown</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://toot.cat/@garry" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Garry Knight</a> @<a href="https://mstdn.social/@qurlyjoe" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">qurly(not curly)joe</a> This, by the way, is something that next to nobody in the Fediverse knows, and that many will deny and fight with all they can: Alt-text must never include exclusive information that is neither in the post text nor in the image itself. Such information must always go into the post itself. If you don't have room in the post, add it to a reply or multiple. That's because not everybody can access alt-text. Certain physical disabilities can make accessing alt-text impossible, for example, if someone can't use their hands. Money quote from way down <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/4376779b-8bd1-4da9-9c38-92a7fae57abb" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">this comment thread</a>: <a href="https://hachyderm.io/@gnomicutterance" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"></a><a href="https://hachyderm.io/@gnomicutterance" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Deborah</a> schrieb den folgenden <a href="https://hachyderm.io/@gnomicutterance/110691919197248049" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Beitrag</a> Mon, 10 Jul 2023 23:30:45 +0200 <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@jupiter_rowland</a> I have a disability that prevents me from seeing alt text, because on almost all platforms, seeing the alt requires having a screenreader or working hands. If you post a picture, is there info that you want somebody who CAN see the picture but DOESN’T have working hands to know? Write that in visible text. If you put that in the alt, you are explicitly excluding people like me. But you don’t have to overthink it. The description of the image itself is a simple concept. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Inclusion" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Inclusion</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=A11y" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">A11y</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Accessibility</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuotePost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuotePost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteTweet" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuoteTweet</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteToot" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuoteToot</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteBoost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuoteBoost</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mstdn.ca/@DavidM_yeg" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">David Mitchell :CApride:</a> <blockquote>Mostly, just imagine you’re telling your friend over the phone about image you’re looking at and what they would need to know.</blockquote> Let's just say I'm a bit critical about that because, in my opinion, it doesn't work in the Fediverse. <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland?f=&zid=mastodon.world%40mastodon.world" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"></a><a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland?f=&zid=mastodon.world%40mastodon.world" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Jupiter Rowland</a> schrieb den folgenden <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/21735784-8443-430a-aa09-e0d9d00a40c2?f=&zid=mastodon.world%40mastodon.world" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Beitrag</a> Fri, 04 Oct 2024 23:30:02 +0200 You can't describe images in Fediverse posts like over the phoneAllegedly, a "good" advice for image descriptions is always to describe images like you'd describe them to someone on a landline phone. Sorry, but that's non-sense. At least for anything that goes significantly beyond a real-life cat photo. If you describe an image through a phone, you describe it to one person. Usually a person whom you know, so you've at least got a rough idea on what they need described. Even more importantly, you can ask that person what they want to know about the image if you don't know. And you get a reply. If you describe an image for a public Fediverse post, you describe it to millions of Fediverse users and billions of Web users. You can't know what they all want, nor can you generalise what they all want. And you can't even ask one of them what they need described before or while describing, much less all of them. In fact, you can't ask at all. And yet, you have to cater to everyone's needs the same and throw no-one under a bus. If I see a realistic chance that someone might be interested in some detail in one of my images, I will describe it. It won't be in the shorter description in the alt-text; instead, it will be in the long description which I've always put directly into the post so far, but whose placement I'm currently reconsidering. If something is unfamiliar enough to enough people that it requires an explanation, I will explain it in the long description. Right now, only meme posts are an exception. They don't need as much of a visual description as long as I stick to the template, and a poll has revealed that people do prefer externally linked third-party explanations over my own ones blowing the character count of the post out of proportion. This is the one time that I can safely assume that I actually know what most people want. @<a href="https://a.gup.pe/u/accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">accessibility group</a> @<a href="https://a.gup.pe/u/a11y" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">a11y group</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Inclusion" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Inclusion</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=A11y" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">A11y</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Accessibility</a> CC: @<a href="https://mstdn.ca/@monstreline" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Monstreline</a> @<a href="https://ohai.social/@i_cannot_today" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Claire (sometimes Carla)</a> @<a href="https://mstdn.social/@qurlyjoe" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">qurly(not curly)joe</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuotePost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuotePost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteTweet" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuoteTweet</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteToot" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuoteToot</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteBoost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuoteBoost</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mstdn.ca/@monstreline" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Monstreline</a> @<a href="https://mstdn.social/@qurlyjoe" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">qurly(not curly)joe</a> @<a href="https://ohai.social/@i_cannot_today" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Claire (sometimes Carla)</a> One thing you could do is <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/alttext" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">search mastodon.social for the #</a><a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> hashtag which many put on their posts with alt-text. Also, <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/alttext" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">search mastodon.social for the #</a><a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextHallOfFame" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextHallOfFame</a> hashtag and follow @<a href="https://mastodon.social/@alttexthalloffame" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Alt Text Hall of Fame</a>. However, I'm not sure if that will lead to the desired outcome. Checking Mastodon users' alt-texts and the reactions upon these was part of what <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/1e63be04-d96e-412a-ab47-aff18c5f9ad8" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">led myself to what one may argue is "overthinking" image descriptions for the Fediverse</a>. In fact, I ended up describing all my original images twice, including with a long image description in the post itself. And I'm constantly upping my game, improving my style and declaring old image descriptions obsolete because I keep learning new things and trying new things. Granted, you may not be inspired to go as far as I did, seeing as you've got 500 characters in posts whereas I have hundreds of thousands or even millions. But still, chances are that analysing other people's alt-texts may have you overthink image descriptions even more rather than less. For reference, here are my latest original image posts in reverse chronological order (the older, the more obsolete): <ul><li><a href="https://streams.elsmussols.net/.well-known/apgateway/did:key:z6Mkmc3YmgUu5jTyhc6YqC8VjnMwmFtdjFFA45MHTqyBFaA2/item/b6ae326a-c207-46dd-836b-6bc2b6a3509c" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Happy 17th birthday, OSgrid!</a></li><li><a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/f8ac991d-b64b-4290-be69-28feb51ba2a7" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Universal Campus: The mother of all mega-regions</a></li><li><a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/136f021c-06cb-4e38-abe6-2bf37fd521d8" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Inspector Jupiter Rowland, Scotland Yard...</a></li><li><a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/c8a14063-b4e2-48fa-baf9-cb4faef7225b" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">The upcycling and upgrading of Clutterfly furniture continues</a></li><li><a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/8c2b4728-dda5-498b-9f84-2f11e163a4a5" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">When old meets new: Arcadia Asylum exhibits at OpenSimFest 2023</a></li></ul>In each case, the post including image(s) is hidden behind a summary and content warning. In the first post, the images themselves are additionally hidden behind a spoiler tag as an extra safety measure due to their potentially sensitive content. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CharacterLimit" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CharacterLimit</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CharacterLimits" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CharacterLimits</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=OpenSim" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenSim</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=OpenSimulator" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenSimulator</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Metaverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Metaverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=VirtualWorlds" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">VirtualWorlds</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mstdn.social/@qurlyjoe" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">qurly(not curly)joe</a> @<a href="https://mastodon.social/@jztusk" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">jz.tusk</a> If you have a lot to describe, and/or if you need to explain your image, the best you can do is to give two descriptions for the same image. A "short", purely visual description in the alt-text, also to satisfy the alt-text police and the Mastodon HOA who demand there be an alt-text for all images, no matter what. And a long, detailed description that includes all explanations, and that goes into the post. Yes, it will exceed 500 characters. But if you regularly have to describe that much, it's best to move someplace with a much higher character limit. Spreading a long description across multiple Mastodon toots can only be a short-term kluge. Misskey offers you hard-coded 3,000 characters. All its forks have configurable character limits which tend to be higher. Akkoma offers you at least 5,000 characters. Friendica offers you 200,000 characters, but adding alt-text isn't as straight-forward as on Mastodon. The limit I have here on Hubzilla is even higher; I don't know how high it is, but it doesn't really matter because AFAIK Mastodon rejects all posts from outside with over 100,000 characters. But I don't post images here anymore because Hubzilla cannot make Mastodon blank out sensitive images. I have two channels for images on (streams) now which can make Mastodon hide images, @<a class="" href="https://streams.elsmussols.net/.well-known/apgateway/did:key:z6Mkmc3YmgUu5jTyhc6YqC8VjnMwmFtdjFFA45MHTqyBFaA2/actor" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Jupiter Rowland's (streams) outlet</a> and @<a class="" href="https://streams.elsmussols.net/.well-known/apgateway/did:key:z6Mkf2dhUa65zBYCNVqs3AHyt8uPixauZ7bPzEJn15LJANsd/actor" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Jupiter's Fedi-Memes on (streams)</a>. (streams) has a fixed character limit of over 24,000,000 that's defined by database field size. That is, I rarely post images nowadays. Explaining my Fediverse memes is tedious enough already. But properly describing and explaining my original virtual world images so that everyone gets them takes up so much time and energy (one image post always takes up several hours, and I touch-type on a hardware keyboard) that there are practically always months between two image posts. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Misskey" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Misskey</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forkey" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Forkey</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forkeys" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Forkeys</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Akkoma" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Akkoma</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Friendica</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CharacterLimit" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CharacterLimit</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CharacterLimits" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CharacterLimits</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://a.gup.pe/u/accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">accessibility group</a> @<a href="https://a.gup.pe/u/a11y" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">a11y group</a> New rant/article: <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/1e63be04-d96e-412a-ab47-aff18c5f9ad8" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">I have learned a lot about describing images according to Mastodon's standards, and I want to share my knowledge, but I haven't learned enough</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Inclusion" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Inclusion</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=A11y" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">A11y</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Accessibility</a>

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