Why is Dem messaging so bad? I mean they're the party of Hollywood why can't they construct a coherent narrative? I'm beginning to think the Democrats are working for the Republicans.
@Dave_Goldsmith @SharonCrockett People just had all their stuff destroyed by wildfires and you’re bothered about their inferior messaging as a political body? Seriously? GTFOH
@wendinoakland @Dave_Goldsmith @SharonCrockett
I don't get this. Who are you talking about?
@JoeChip @wendinoakland @SharonCrockett
I'm not sure who you're asking, but I'm talking about the dearth of successful Democratic messaging. And I'm confused as to why Democrats who attract liberals and progressives who are so creative are incapable of creating a powerful, motivating political narrative.
@Dave_Goldsmith @JoeChip @wendinoakland @SharonCrockett I'm worried that progressives are basically searching for an excuse to not vote for someone. Yes, we all love extremely progressive candidates, but we focus so much on the race for president that once our favored candidate is out of the running we give up hope. On the other side, fascists don't give up.
@Tedspence @Dave_Goldsmith @JoeChip @SharonCrockett There’s that, definitely. And the rift over the administration’s endless support for Israel which has become a purity test and was then utilized by the noise machine to further leverage votes away from democrats.
@wendinoakland @Tedspence @Dave_Goldsmith @SharonCrockett
The fact that opposition to genocide (like support of universal healthcare) has been reduced to a purity test tells you everything you need to know about the Democratic Party.
The Democrats do not have a "messaging problem." They have a fundamental misalignment with the voters. Rejiggering of approved talking points won't change a damn thing.
@JoeChip @wendinoakland @Dave_Goldsmith @SharonCrockett Agreed - it's tragic that so many voters will say "Okay, there's 20 crises happening in the world today. The republican candidate wants to make all 20 of them worse, and the democratic candidate wants to make 11 of the better, but I'm so angry about the 12th one that I can't vote for the democrat." I doubt any messaging will ever fix this.
@Tedspence @wendinoakland @Dave_Goldsmith @SharonCrockett
It cannot be overemphasized that the Democratic Party has evolved into a right wing party. This is now a fundamental part of its institutional remit.
If you hope to change this, good luck.
@JoeChip @Tedspence @wendinoakland @Dave_Goldsmith @SharonCrockett Complaining that it's really a one party system does exactly nothing. The only party that CAN change and CAN win elections is the Dems. But it starts at the bottom. Support candidates who vow to get money out of politics, or support ranked choice voting, etc. But whomever the candidate is, vote for the Dem. What you end up with is always worse otherwise. There aren't two ways about it.
@RinostarGames @JoeChip @Tedspence @wendinoakland @Dave_Goldsmith @SharonCrockett ummm, how can that be effective when the committees with all the political power & finances shut those candidates out? How are people supposed to have trust in a system that kicks them in the face & does whatever they want?
@DEDGirl @RinostarGames @JoeChip @Tedspence @wendinoakland @SharonCrockett
Hence, the need for a third party, a party not beholding to billionaires and millionaires but to workers. A party that prescribes to majoritarian positions: Universal Health Care, Universal Education, Universal Housing, a Living Minimum Wage, etc.
@Dave_Goldsmith @DEDGirl @RinostarGames @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett The small-d democratic party.
@Dave_Goldsmith @wendinoakland @RinostarGames @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett no. Why don’t people realize that disabled people are the largest minority in this country & wording like this is not okay. One of the ways Kamala failed was repeatedly saying “working people”. Many, many americans can’t work, are laid off, are retired, are stay at home parents, and wording like this excludes them.
@DEDGirl @wendinoakland @RinostarGames @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett
What would be a better name than Workers Party? Working Families Party? Something else?
@Dave_Goldsmith @wendinoakland @RinostarGames @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett Maybe something that has nothing to do with a citizen’s employment status & something to do with their being a valuable member of the community regardless.
@DEDGirl @wendinoakland @RinostarGames @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett
I like that. Any suggestions?
@Dave_Goldsmith @wendinoakland @RinostarGames @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett Think simple, non affiliated, inclusive, and not triggering to the propagandized. So, nothing with dem, lib, progressive, socialist, communist, no -ists or -isms. Harder than it seems.
@DEDGirl @Dave_Goldsmith @RinostarGames @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett Yup. Super hard to do.
@DEDGirl @wendinoakland @RinostarGames @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett
Middle Class Party?
For people in the middle class or who are aspiring to become middle class.
Pitchfork Party?
For people who want to skewer their masters.
Green Party?
For people who want to unite with a network of progressive political parties around the globe.
@Dave_Goldsmith @wendinoakland @RinostarGames @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett Dave!! Those are all terrible ideas!!!
@Dave_Goldsmith @DEDGirl @wendinoakland @RinostarGames @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett Equality Party.
The names that don't stick are the ones that on the front require action of the participants. People don't show up for work meetings to chip in a dollar for their donut. Politics is a low-trust endeavor. Static descriptors have staying power.
That it doesn't have a qualifier, like :"Women's" or "Black" should serve as the unifier we poors need right now.
Plus, it's available.
@Dave_Goldsmith @DEDGirl @wendinoakland @RinostarGames @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett What's been swept under the rug, actively, is the influence of economic power on government. I think we're at a point where the lead discussion point can't be turned away from inequality, but also isn't prescriptive about a solution (effectively defying name, like so many feel the Democrats have done).
@janisf @DEDGirl @wendinoakland @RinostarGames @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett
Not getting good your point.
@Dave_Goldsmith @DEDGirl @wendinoakland @RinostarGames @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett It's a hard one to counter, that's for sure....
@Dave_Goldsmith @DEDGirl @wendinoakland @RinostarGames @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett We need something that at least hearkens back to the Progressive Party of the 1880's-ish, I guess.
The actual problem needs calling out, simply, and without a question mark.
@janisf @DEDGirl @wendinoakland @RinostarGames @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett
Do you mean the Populist / Progressive parties of the late 19th century?
@janisf @DEDGirl @wendinoakland @RinostarGames @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett
How about Goo-Goo Party for the "Good Government" moniker given to the Lafollette/"Wisconsin Way" of progressive governance around the turn of the last century?
@Dave_Goldsmith @DEDGirl @wendinoakland @RinostarGames @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett Dark might speak to people for a bit, but if you get too heady, people just don't. Front ends need to be made to Fisher Price specs. In this case, mom-proof isn't even a joke.
@Dave_Goldsmith @DEDGirl @wendinoakland @RinostarGames @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett Effectively. I mean, it's an idea. Run with it. Maybe I'm just lazy, or a pork-headed architect in a room of proper engineers, but as a "creative type," I net general gists from the universe. i suck at creating solid arguments or agendas. Right-brain-wise, I think it would work, and says a needed thing.
@janisf @Dave_Goldsmith @DEDGirl @RinostarGames @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett I think abolishing the republican-favoring electoral college and ending citizens united would be the first steps and those both seem extraordinarily unlikely
@wendinoakland @janisf @DEDGirl @RinostarGames @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett
Those would be essential steps in the right direction. As far as what is possible or not I would have bet the farm that Trump wouldn't even have secured the Republican nomination in 2016.
@wendinoakland @janisf @Dave_Goldsmith @DEDGirl @RinostarGames @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett
@wendinoakland @janisf @Dave_Goldsmith @DEDGirl @RinostarGames @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett
Hate to be the party-pooper, but you might want to read this, breath deeply and have a good, long, therapeutic sigh, 'cause y'all ain't going nowhere:
https://pluralistic.net/2025/01/10/smoke-filled-room-where-it-happens/#dinosaurs
@per_sonne @wendinoakland @janisf @Dave_Goldsmith @DEDGirl @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett If we just wait around for the next presidential election and wish and pray we'll get a better choice, or conversely sit around coming up with names for our new 3rd party, nothing will change and we'll be sad all over again. The point is starting locally and working from there. Complaining every four years does nothing, or worse than nothing. Get initiatives and local candidates on the ballot.
@RinostarGames @per_sonne @wendinoakland @janisf @DEDGirl @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett
Which, of course, assumes that they'll even be any future elections, not necessarily a given given Trumps return to absolute power.
@Dave_Goldsmith @per_sonne @wendinoakland @janisf @DEDGirl @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett The only half of the equation is general strikes. Calling out "sick" whenever you can for however long you can, every time Trump or his lackeys does something extra terrible. If future elections will be withheld, then so will workers.
@per_sonne @wendinoakland @janisf @Dave_Goldsmith @RinostarGames @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett You’re not a party pooper. Funny thing, it was exactly this Cory Doctorow article that inspired my original reply. I’ve never believed any party because I grew up with grandparents that had their civil rights stomped & taught me it’s all
@per_sonne @wendinoakland @janisf @Dave_Goldsmith @RinostarGames @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett But even just throwing around pretend names & having fanciful discussions about, what if, can be hopeful, inspire change, & especially inspire people to run for local political positions.
@per_sonne @wendinoakland @Dave_Goldsmith @DEDGirl @RinostarGames @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett Yeah, I follow Doctorow. He's not the only one who supports what effectively amounts to a DNC takeover. And that may end up being the Left's path to success. (It may be through Trump's takeover of the Republican Party, or a bit of both.) It's long, complex, and convoluted, though, and a branding/PR slog at the least. Simple and straightforward may not win, but message delivery matters.
@Dave_Goldsmith @DEDGirl @wendinoakland @RinostarGames @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett
Whatever happened to Rocky Anderson's Justice Party? Best party platform I've ever read.
@zaivala @DEDGirl @wendinoakland @RinostarGames @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett
I am unfamiliar with Rocky Anderson. I like the Green Party's platform in 20, 0 the one that Nader ran on.
@Dave_Goldsmith @DEDGirl @wendinoakland @RinostarGames @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett
I respect that, but the Greens in the US have not held up their end of the bargain. I believe I posted the Wikipedia link for Justice Party, it should at least be a solid basis for forming something new.
@zaivala @DEDGirl @wendinoakland @RinostarGames @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett
I worked with the Green Party for about seven years between 2000 and 2007. I have to admit that our results were less than disappointing. I'm not sure what you mean by not holding up our end of the bargain, though.
@Dave_Goldsmith
The Green party in the US has not functioned as a party. There is no grassroots work, there are no candidates being run for even school board seats, all they do is show up and run as a spoiler. And I am awfully tired of Dr Jill and her hypocrisy. Her stock portfolio does not read "Green".
Not true. The Green Party ran candidates in local, state, and nationally. I ran for state legislature.
@Dave_Goldsmith
I have seen no evidence of that activity that I am glad that I have been wrong. I have lived in a lot of states over the years and I'm 72 now. I have never yet even seen a Green Party headquarters or heard anything about the party until Jill Stein throws her hat in the ring.
I'm curious: what state(s) have you voted in?
@Dave_Goldsmith
To date, Kansas, New Jersey, Colorado, Alabama, Michigan, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Tennessee. I left my home state of California before I was old enough to vote.
You should have seen Green Party candidates on most of those states' ballots. Are you saying you've never seen a Green Party candidate on any ballot?
Other than president or veep I mean.
@Dave_Goldsmith
Other than Jill Stein, no.
This is a list of the hundreds of Green Party candidates who have run for public office in the US. I'm surprised that you have somehow managed to vote all these years without ever seeing a Green Party candidate on the ballot for a local or statewide race!
My larger point is that the Green Party HAS run down- ballot races, but we have a dismal track record for winning.
@Dave_Goldsmith
I am sorry to have been ignorant of this. I would not make ignorant statements were it not for my own ignorance. There is no sarcasm intended here, thank you for illuminating me. It would be nice if the Green Party could *win* something...
Yeah. Winning would be nice for a change.
@DEDGirl @Dave_Goldsmith @RinostarGames @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett You might need to start over. Look at what assholes the republicans are about voting i.d., etc. Sure, I’m idealistic too, but it’s tempered by living through plenty of disappointing stuff.
@wendinoakland @Dave_Goldsmith @RinostarGames @JoeChip @Tedspence @SharonCrockett