@jeffowski For my education could you point me to the source of this map? This is a simpler version of some that I’ve seen and in that way more useful.
@rdfranke @jeffowski i don't see how misrepresenting indigenous peoples' land occupation does any of the many peoples left off this map, nor the peoples misrepresented on this map, any justice.
im really unsure how someone self proclaimed to be into history and social justice can say it's better to simplify the atrocities that happened in the "americas" than to show, in full, the many many peoples and cultures we lost to settler colonialism.
This is an althist map that doesn't mean anything for the precolumbian world. The Salish should extend all the way to the coast and up into what's now Canada. The Haida should have a smaller range. The Caddo, Coushatta, Karankawa are all missing despite together holding quite a bit of the northwestern Gulf coast. The Cherokee didn't extend that far because other people lived there.
tbh you're better off looking at the EU4 starting map
@caffetiel @rdfranke @jeffowski Shouldn't Osage be on there too?
@jeffowski Here is a more accurate depiction of the map of the continent in the year of the European arrival hope you like it https://puravariedad.com/pura-historia
@jeffowski Pretty big perspective. Although from every historical record I could find, a lot of these nations hated each other like any other country. Not to justify the ugliness that came afterwards, but you can't ignore the ugliness of what came before anymore than you can ignore the ugliness now.
@jeffowski Can you do one about Palestine too, before 1948? 
@jeffowski I love it. But boundaries do change throughout history. There have always been bullies with guns and horses.
@jeffowski The map is incorrect, however. California had many different peoples living in the area, not two.
@jeffowski
Nice spin on “nativist” politics.
@jeffowski this doesn’t look right. I don’t think that’s where the Beothuk were, for starters. They were in Newfoundland, which isn’t on the map, not Labrador, afaik. That is Innu land. And the area of the Mi’kmaq included Penobscot and Maliseet. All of Wabanaki looks messed up. Besides, there weren’t clear borders as seen here.
@jeffowski technically they were also illegal immigrants from Russia.
@jeffowski was more the result of disease than immigration
@jeffowski This map was thoroughly debunked back in 2015. As many others have pointed out, it's alternate history not ethnography.
@sarahc @jeffowski was going to say this too. Look at the details a lot of it is not accurate to any point in history
@jeffowski don't forget the genocide.
@jeffowski Why is it dated 2015? Is it a map of what things might have come to look like in the 21st century, had history been different?
@jeffowski please take this highly inaccurate map down and just post images from the native-land.ca map mentioned in the smithsonian article you keep linking. this map erases entire peoples and completely puts into the language of white supremacists what happened.
there was no illegal immigration. no laws -besides maybe treaties between peoples -on what we call america dictated where people could go. the europeans were, under their own laws, lawfully immigrating. this is supposed to be a map of tribes and empires prior to the atrocities of settler colonialism.
illegal immigration is something only ethnocentrists care about.
@wallamidyl — LOL, the meme is an inaccurate map and if you look closely, I have posted the Smithsonian article about Native-land.ca so people have context. What is funny is that the less accurate map was posted on purpose to get engagement and the internet does not disappoint.
I get a bunch of people saying “that’s not right, these people belong here” versus actually going and contributing to the project. But the really smart people that know how to use Mastodon won’t view comments.
@jeffowski "if you look closely", right but i said just link the map instead of this whole roundabout way of getting engagement. notice how people will only engage with you making a dumb post if you don't make the focus of the post the act of getting more engagement on improving the map. plus, most people commenting mention not being qualified to make correct judgments about the map.
i just don't see the benefit of treating a topic like genocide as a way to get internet engagement or see how it's productive to be kinda flippant about the whole thing. this seems more that you'd like to make a joke at the expense of multiple lost cultures than to try to get people to make positive change.
@jeffowski Thank you, I've never seen this.
@peterjriley2024 @jeffowski ... and I'm wondering if that number includes the Pacific languages spoken in islands that the US still occupies.
@peterjriley2024 @jeffowski Pretty sure Navajo is on Duolingo as a starting point.
This is not very accurate. I live on Coast Salish territory, but according to the map it's part of Haida Gwai, which is the archipelago to the north. The non-Salish people on the coast who were pushed out by the Salish migration from the Interior were most closely related to the Nuu Chah Nulth on the West Coast of Vancouver Island, who are also not shown here. This is a like a "map" of Medieval Europe with "countries" named "Scandinavia" and "Gaul".
Thanks! The actual map looks excellent. I have no idea where the screenshot comes from.
@jeffowski If you zoom in on the Salish Sea and select "languages" you can see how Salish territory stretches from the Interior, down the Fraser, and over to Vancouver Island.
@jeffowski No sources cited. There are some good 1491 maps out there and this is not one of them. Hopi in eastern NM? Apache Empire? WTAF
@jeffowski Yes.
I'd put a lot more stock in this one for sure.
@jeffowski I often forget how big the Cherokee Homeland was .
Off to cry now
@MishaVanMollusq -- I have personal ancestral family land that is trapped and leased against our wishes by the US Government for a part of a military base. I can relate to all the indigenous struggles around the world. The home islands were taken over in the late 1880's by an burgeoning imperial power.
@MishaVanMollusq -- Indigenous to an island in the Pacific. For security reasons, I withhold.
@jeffowski that makes me guess Hawai’i or Guam
@MishaVanMollusq -- Very close. I have family in both places.
@MishaVanMollusq @jeffowski OK, but what if it's one of the San Juans north of Seattle? (random comment from a rando finding this conversation very interesting)
@jeffowski
I'm going to need to go back to my maps, because some groups seem to be missing. My late husband knew a lot about this, but I need my maps & notes. Thank you for posting this.
@lolonurse -- All of your emotes or whatever are just a block for me.
@jeffowski
Oh no! I'm ridiculously unsophisticated about social media and the correct manners or customs. I'm an old hippie, and rather naively just say (or emoji) what I think. Hope I wasn't too annoying. I'll try to remember! :)
@lolonurse -- I had seen you reply with it twice, so I just wanted to let you know that I couldn't see it.
@jeffowski
It was an appreciation heart. So many people use them, & smiley faces, flowers, other cute things, so now I have adopted them, too.
If I forget, I apologize in advance. Just tap me on the shoulder (or kick me in the shin) to jostle my memory.
I don't see Seminole (Florida).
@jchaven @jeffowski
I noticed that, too. And some others, as well.