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@RoyBrander @clive

it should be assumed that all cops are bastards, always, everywhere.

@burnitdown @RoyBrander @clive cops are not assholes here in Finland. They're highly respected in the society. Then again, they have a high school education plus 3-4 years training in the police academy. Maybe that makes a difference.

@funambolo @burnitdown @RoyBrander @clive What? It's literally just four days since an ylikomisario (chief inspector/captain) of Helsinki police force went on air telling we should just let fascists in Finnish libraries because I dunno, freedoms?

They protect their own, simple as that.

@jarizleifr @funambolo @burnitdown @RoyBrander @clive Finnish cops also have disappeared activists for years, not as bad or for as long as their US counterparts now, but for some days at least. "Preventive detentions" and all that jazz. Not to mention other ways they like to make people's lives difficult.

@undefined_variable @jarizleifr @burnitdown @RoyBrander @clive that said: if you're an activist the police can handcuff you and drag you away. They're upholding the law, which is not to say the law is necessarily fair or just. I checked some polls from the past and in at least one (IS, 2017) policeman was chosen as the most respected job here in Finland. Couldn't open the SK poll as it was behind a paywall.

@funambolo @jarizleifr @burnitdown @RoyBrander @clive

Well, they rank pretty high in the US too, in that respect, so I guess they're ok there too?

https://news.gallup.com/poll/647303/confidence-institutions-mostly-flat-police.aspx

In Finland they might not shoot you on sight, but you might die in the holding cell. Those deaths are alarmingly high. Also remember KURI1? Bet you a buck that hasn't been the only official project like that, and if that was done officially, you can imagine what the police does unofficially. The police has repeatedly been caught having connections and even giving information to far-right groups. The police is blatantly partial in how they choose to uphold the law, not to mention how they use extrajudicial means to punish people they deem have offended them.

Again, granted, nowhere near the level off ass-fuckery that the US law enforcement gets into, but the Finnish police is as far from the image they portray as Finland itself is. Or do you really believe those "Finland is the happiest country in the world" polls too, and take them to mean that there's no issues in the Finnish society, everyone's taken care of and everything's sunshine and police dog puppies?

@undefined_variable @jarizleifr @burnitdown @RoyBrander @clive

I would be genuinely interested in reading articles that cover the things you mentioned. There have definitely been cases where, for example, indivual members of the police have co-operated with criminals for monetary gain. But is this sort of conduct widespread or systemic? Has this thing even been researched? I don't really know.

@undefined_variable @jarizleifr @burnitdown @RoyBrander @clive

I think the US gallup is interesting. It is widely known that in certain US (e.g. black) neighbourhoods cops are loathed upon. The high confidence in police is probably propped up by white americans who rarely encounter the police and when they do, the encounter is more or less friendly.

I'm sure similar logic applies in Finland as well: immigrants _may_ have a very different views of the police than the white "native" majority.

@undefined_variable @jarizleifr @burnitdown @RoyBrander @clive

All this said, there is no need to be confrontational. I don't have a fixed opinion on this topic and much prefer "here are some examples of what I'm talking about" instead of hints of naivety.

@funambolo @jarizleifr @burnitdown @RoyBrander @clive My apologies for a bit snide tone, just that I have personal experience of being a target of harassment by the Finnish police (and mind you, not for doing anything illegal, but for being, legally, involved in activism and organizing), so when someone is like "you can trust the Finnish police", it gets personal to me really fast. And I'm by no means alone here.

I'm not aware of any independent research into the Finnish police, I don't think they'd allow it, to begin with, and I think that kind of research would be nigh impossible to do without co-operation from the police. The culture of silence is strong, but that seems to be breaking now, as shown by the recent case with Taponen. The police themselves release their "police barometers", but I wouldn't put much stock on those.

Here's some individual cases that put together show a clear trend within the Finnish police too.

Several police involved with a far-right group, even supplying them with police information: https://yle.fi/a/74-20081776

Helsinki police doing racial profiling: https://yle.fi/a/3-12242143

Helsinki police colluding with the private security services, targeting individual people: https://www.hs.fi/tutkiva/art-2000010813305.html

And of course recently there was the case Taponen: https://yle.fi/a/74-20144649

Unfortunately most cases don't even make it to the news, and are easily dismissed as one-sided when coming from, for example, the activists themselves. But there is a trend there, one just has to be willing to see it.

Edit: forgot to include this reporting on cell deaths: https://yle.fi/aihe/a/20-313292

@undefined_variable @jarizleifr @burnitdown @RoyBrander @clive

Thanks for the link, I was not aware of this case! Years ago a friend of mine was arrested because he happened to hang around in the vicinity of a demonstration next to Postitalo in Helsinki city center. Also, I once went to report a crime (identity theft) the police immediately accused _me_ of a crime. While this "misunderstanding" was resolved quickly, the mood was pretty icy after that.

@funambolo @jarizleifr @burnitdown @RoyBrander @clive The Finnish police is know in the activism circles for "kettling" people in the demos, that is just surrounding a bunch of people and detaining everyone who happens to be inside the kettle, regardless if they had anything to do with it or not, often also trying to issue fines to those detained for various offenses. Unfortunately this practice and the "preventative detentions" of people are areas that usually don't get reported in the news at all. Not that aspect of it at least, there might be news saying "police detained xx people", but the angle is always that the people somehow deserved it, never questioning the police narrative.

I haven't been active with stuff for some years now, so I don't know how much the police uses those nowadays, but they used to be common place pre-covid with what the police viewed as left-wing demos. Hopefully someone who's active with organizing and f.ex. legal stuff with demos in Finland nowadays can chime in here.

Sorry to hear about your friend's and your experiences, they're not uncommon though.